Taylor Lorenz on Meme Culture, the Internet and More
Taylor Lorenz, a staff writer at the Atlantic who covers internet culture, joins Adam to discuss the speed of the internet, memes and more.
Adam Pierno: All right. All right. Welcome back to another episode of The Strategy Inside Everything. We have a special treat. We have brought in a new voice from outside the world of strategy, amen. Today joining us from the wonderful world of internet culture is Taylor Lorenz. She's a staff writer at the Atlantic who covers internet culture. Taylor, thank you so much for making time for us.
Taylor Lorenz: Yes, thanks for having me.
Adam: We had to work a little bit. You had some train trouble the other day, but finally got it worked out.
Taylor: I'm always having train drama. I live in New York, so. [chuckles]
Adam: Yes. That could be its own-- There could be memes that focus on train dramas. I'm surprised we don't see more.
Taylor: There are, yes. There's a whole Facebook group called something, something for transit-oriented teens. I can't remember.
Adam: No, I'm going to go down a rabbit hole on that. Thanks again for making time. For the few people listening that are probably -- may not be familiar with your writing, you want to give them a background on who you are and what you've done?
Taylor: Yes, sure. I currently work at the Atlantic and I write about internet culture, social media, a lot of meme stuff. Basically, tech from the user perspective. All the different ways people use technology to communicate and connect. That's what I do now. It's great.
Adam: Excellent. I found this article that you wrote, which had me reaching out to you as I was researching for another project that you wrote for the Atlantic, about the speed of memes and how the speed of the internet is accelerating at a breakneck pace. I know that article is a few months old, but if you want to recap it and then we can start beating it up.
Taylor: Sure. Well it's, I would argue even more true now. Basically, what I wrote about was how memes are coming and going faster than ever. The lifespan of a joke on the internet or a meme has shortened and significantly over the past 10 years. Back in 2010, there would be something that would be on Tumblr for months, now most things come and go in a matter of days even. In fact, that was one part of my story, and the broader part of my story was how that affects people. How that affects creators, but more importantly how it affects people that monetize these memes.
I just heard about Instagram egg too that was the World Record Egg on Instagram and its struggle to monetize. Basically that there's a really short window where you can monetize a meme, otherwise it gets old.
Adam: Yes, I was just totally captivated. There's so many different ways to take this story because in your article it goes into the people that monetize the memes and then I started realizing the people-- The creators that might come up with an idea or publish something, not necessarily the same people that monetize it. There's just a group of people that are hawks for new themes, and new jokes and new memes, new stories that they'll put on kinds of merch and get it up with the speed of light. That ecosystem is breaking down just because you can't produce the stuff fast enough that by the time it's delivered to me two days later that meme, I've already forgotten I think.
Taylor: Totally. It's kind of like-- Well, the sad truth of the internet is that almost never do the people who create the memes are responsible get paid. Like Fortnite famously capitalized on a lot of memeable dances. Now they're under a lawsuit because the creators of these dances are like, "Hey, I actually invented that thing and I deserve to get paid for this big cultural phenomenon." People trying to monetize memes. A lot of it is through e-commerce. They'll see something funny and then they'll want to put it on a T-shirt or make a plushy or sell something related to it.
Just with standard production and shipping schedule, it's hard to sell any kind of actual meme merchandise anymore. Urban Outfitters was kinds of famous for selling a lot of this stuff five years ago.
Adam: They used to be on the spot with it and make it really relevant and seemingly. Surprisingly timely to me that it would be like, "Wow, that happened pretty quickly that they got that in the store."
Taylor: Yes, they were. That was their whole merchandising strategy, but they've shifted to a lot more novelty broad stuff more recently. They still do a lot of trend buying, but it's hard to do the kind of reactive stuff that they did previously where they had like, "I should have this shirt or whatever.
Adam: Don't you think, as I've observed that, from your article, I started following some of these merchandisers and stores and trying to figure out where they're going. It kind of devolves into almost like mom Facebook memes where it's the lowest common denominator of just like, "Wine is great, isn't it?" It's like, yes okay. We get some e-cards. We've already seen these jokes.
Taylor: That's exactly what it is. It's like old-time e-cards joke that will never die. Or it's like the kind of stuff that you see, like people hawking at Hot Topic or something. They're kind of just these stupid jokes. They're not really memes.
Adam: It's super-duper generic, right? They have to do what big brands do to hit a larger audience, right? They have to get unspecific and get more broad to make any sense to anybody.
Taylor: Yes, which is sad.
Adam: Yes, it is sad, because some of those things really-- The reason I love memes is because they tickle a very specific part of my sensor humor or get me thinking a very unique way that-- Now it's just like, "Oh, here's a thing that I've already thought 2,000 times, that's probably already existed on a poster in a men's room at a club for 200 years."
Taylor: Yes, exactly. [laughs]
Adam: Which is actually the lowest form of comedy, I don't know if you knew that.
Taylor: Fair enough.
Adam: It's true. The question then-- I have so many questions and I'm so delighted that I have someone that can answer some of these questions. People that are creating these things-- You said, and I know this is true and I think our listeners know this is true. The people who create things on the internet rarely get paid for it, right? They're rarely the person who monetizes it. Who is behind? It seems like there's a small group of people that generates a lot of these ideas. I find it on weird Twitter, and I find it from scrolling Reddit and trying to find weird subReddits. Why are they doing it? Just for the lols? Like we're just trying to make ourselves laugh?
Taylor: Why are people making stuff on the internet?
Adam: Well, why are they making deliberately-- It seems like there's a group of people that are producing memes specifically that are-- They're trying to get the thing to go-
Taylor: Yes, go viral?
Taylor: Yes. I think it's just fun. I don't know. Memes, especially today, are more participatory than ever. People like to steal a joke and then make their own rip on it. It's kind of just a way of expressing yourself. People make memes and stuff for all types of reasons, but I was thinking of big things like the Bird Box memes are whatever. It's the big cultural moment at the time. You want to provide your own commentary about it. You want to make your own joke about it, and memes are just a really effective way to do that.
Adam: Is there an uproar when, A, they see something that they create? I could see that they sued Fortnite like Backpack Kid came after along with 20 other people, and rightfully so. If it's I created something on Reddit, and it got picked up and turned into-- It got transmogrified into some other format, and now it's being sold on someone's e-store. Do they chase it down or is it just like, "Oh well. There's another one."
Taylor: Sometimes. It depends. It depends on the person. It's kind of hard, and I think the legality of all this is all being worked out. I think memes more and more-- I guess the formats of them are evolving. Whereas they used to be a stock photo and somebody could actually claim credit for that stock photo. Like the guy looking around, like the-
Adam: Distracted boyfriend?
Taylor: Distracted boyfriend.
Adam: I actually have that up on my screen right now from your article.
Taylor: Yes. That's an example of clearly a photographer took that picture and was he able to monetize the success of it? Not really. It's kind of just a badge, I guess, that he can wear now. Unfortunately, a lot of the people that do eventually get paid for their creative work are people that have enough privilege to file a lawsuit, hire a lawyer, really chase it down. Famously, the girl who invented the word on fleeker, she made the vine was, "Eyebrows on fleek, " was never really credited with it, never received any money from it, because she was just this young teenager and no one ever-
Adam: It's appalling. It's appalling. It's actually in the book that I'm trying to finalize that how she posted that video, and then within three weeks there's a Taco Bell CMO standing at a podium using, "on fleek" incorrectly with just totally straight face like, "This is just a term that we all use and we all know it," and everybody's like, "What are you talking about? You just listed that from that poor girl's video that got shared around."
Taylor: Yes exactly.
Adam: When I read the initial story though, memes are becoming harder to monetize. Which obviously I'll link in the show notes. I'm trying to decide if you are sympathetic to the e-commerce businesses or more sympathetic to people that create these things?
Taylor: Well, there's not a huge distinction. A lot of these people, the people that work in this e-commerce space are also a lot of like big memers themselves. Jason Wong who has this one meme store, he's famously monetized a lot of memes over the years. There's also a huge Tumblr meme kid and created this really successful Tumblr meme network in his teenage years. It's a really blurry line and I think memes are just becoming part of culture and it's hard. It's kind of like the argument over who owns a Twitter joke.
A lot of times even somebody will post the first joke to Twitter but they've seen it even on Instagram or it's a joke they heard, or it's actually a comedian's joke.
It's really hard to determine who was the originator of some of these trends, or jokes, or formats. Yes it can be hard. I'm sympathetic to everyone involved but obviously the big brands I'm less sympathetic to. [chuckles]] [unintelligible 00:11:31]
Adam: Yes, I'm not that sympathetic to Urban Outfitters for example- [crosstalk]
Taylor: No, but just creators. Some of the creators that have tried to monetize their own memes, I'm sympathetic to them.
Adam: I am too. How can they, in your estimation having these conversations, how are they reacting to this speed? It's not like there's a model for this anyway.
Taylor: Trying to do other stuff. The internet always finds a way but also I think people trying to make money always find a way. [laughs] They just monetize in a different way or try to create custom wearage with a tagline from their page, so it depends but it's hard, definitely.
Adam: Yes. One of the memes I'm really chuckling about now is the Reddit meme about not letting memes get to Instagram, now that is cracking me up right now.
Taylor: Yes, it's crazy what the impact that Instagram has had on meme culture. It's helped a lot of stuff go mainstream I think.
Adam: It's helped a lot of stuff but it's also it's started some good conversations about ownership.
Taylor: Oh yes, but it's just stirred a lot of stuff.
Adam: Well that too.
Taylor: I think it's funny to have seen norms change though, like FuckJerry gets called out a lot for stealing jokes, same with The Fat Jew and they definitely do that but they stop doing it. Pretty much they include attributions in all of their-- They still keep the person's name in when they screenshot a tweet. I do think that the norms around that have shifted a lot.
Adam: It takes the community to tell people, "Hey, you can't do that. That's crappy." and then they stop doing it but they did recognize it.
Taylor: Yes, and I think it's other big accounts too like Kale Salad that really pioneered some of this attributions stuff. That was like, "Hey look, follow me. I'm actually the good meme account because I include people's pictures that I screenshot from, or tag them," and I think communities saw that and it ended up changing the norm. I'm sure it'll continue to evolve as everyone figures this stuff all out.
Adam: Yes, and I've been paying more attention to how individual creators or individual people have an allegiance to a channel or a platform until-- I'm trying to figure out what the tipping point is when they go, "No, no, no I'm out of here. I'm not doing this anymore." Vine, it seems like ancient history but that thing swallowed up a lot of [laughs] creators with it, who just disappeared overnight when the service shut down. I'm surprised so many people are still like, "I'm all in on Instagram." or "Reddit's my platform and I don't want anything I do to go anywhere else." It's interesting to see how people hold that loyalty.
Taylor: Yes, completely. I think the connection that people have with some of these digital creators is really deep and it can take a lot to break that bond.
Adam: In your opinion, is that loyalty to the community that's there, or is it something about the platform? They understand the mechanics of it particularly well like, "I know how Instagram works so I'm not leaving until they shut it down or make me stop."
Taylor: Wait, do you mean loyalty to the platform or loyalty to the creator on the platform?
Adam: I mean is the creator loyal to the platform or- [crosstalk] what are you doing to the platform?
Taylor: Oh, oh, oh. No, no, no smart creator would ever be loyal to a platform. Maybe Vine was a cautionary tale. So many of the top Vinners are all top YouTubers now because they left Vine but like you said, a lot of other creators got left in the dust. I think pretty much any modern smart creator nowadays is like, "No way." As soon as you get an audience on one place you are like, "Get on my other-" "Don't just follow me here, follow me here, follow me here, follow me everywhere else."
I'm like that for sure. Even as a journalist I don't like having all my followers on Twitter. It freaks me out, I'm trying to get more followers on Instagram. I'm trying to do other things. You never want to over-leverage yourself on one platform.
Adam: We will add a link to your Instagram.
Taylor: Yes, thanks.
Adam: Hey, nobody find Taylor on Twitter, you've got to find her on Instagram.
Taylor: Yes, follow me on wherever but just follow me everywhere. Well, you never know what's going to happen with any of these crazy platforms. Then all of a sudden they're going to be hauled up in front of Congress and the platform's just going to be defanged and can't do anything for you anymore.
Adam: Where do you see this going? Obviously, the internet has never gotten slower. What do you think are some of the ways that creators and these e-commerce stores-- Because this is the first time it feels for the e-commerce stores that you've described as a step back. The content is worse, the products are worse, it's actually hurting them. You can see that they can't get the ideas to market fast enough.
Taylor: I know. I think things are evolved. I think that everything evolves and changes and as one thing gets shut down people migrate to another thing. Obviously, there's people that will lose out along the way, but then there is people that are going to take advantage in the opportunities as new things spring up. I think people are still monetizing memes but I think it's different now. More recently we've seen basically people come up with sponsored memes or capitalize on new trends. Netflix will capitalize on the fact that everyone's sharing Bird Box memes and try to stoke that.
Drake, in order to launch his In My Feelings challenge, will pay a bunch of top memers to basically participate in the meme. Things like that where brands are working more proactively to start the memes themselves and monetize it seems to be a trend I guess.
Adam: In that model, I know that there was controversy around Netflix and Bird Box, and were they-
Taylor: They weren't programmed.
Adam: They weren't. You can say this for sure? You say that's definitive.
Taylor: They didn't have-- I know this, I reported on it. I reported this extensively.
Adam: I love this.
Taylor: No. People were like, "Oh, Bird Box-- Netflix made a bot network to make memes." Like what? No, they absolutely did not and actually, the person who started that rumor retracted it very publicly on Twitter. So no, but did they totally capitalize on the fact that people were making these memes, of course. They loved that the Bird Box challenge was happening and yes, they were going to talk about that on their social channels for sure but they didn't start that meme. What they did is give it premium placement on their front page of their app, when everyone was home and drive people to watch it. Which leads people to start conversation around it.
Adam: That top box on their app has got to be some of the most valuable media.
Taylor: Oh my God, yes. Completely, and I couldn't go anywhere on that app for like a week. I was on my Apple TV trying to watch everything else and it was just like, "Bird Box, Bird Box, Bird Box." So that promotion is worth way more than a couple of memes.
Adam: Did you watch the movie by the way? I did not.
Taylor: Yes I did. It was fine.
Adam: Was it good?
Taylor: Yes, my bar for movies is so low so I liked it.
Adam: I like it. Let's talk about brands using memes because that's an area of interest for me and I think for our audience. First question, in the case of Netflix or in the case of any other brands you mentioned just before we started talking about this, is it just the standard influencer thing where they say, "Hey, we want to work with you. You come up with an idea and we'll help support it."? or did Drake go and say, "This is what I want to do for the In my feelings challenge," or did he just leverage something that was happening out in the world and he just piled on and started-
Taylor: Yes, no he kind of started- It's a very wishy-washy thing because a lot of this is so user-generated. Even brands that will try to start a meme, it gets taken over by the community pretty quickly and made into something else. I think more people are trying to basically direct the memes. They'll be like, "Oh, we hope people use it this way." or "We hope people do this specific challenge this way." I think challenge culture is the big part of TikTok, where a lot of memes are coming from now. TikTok has a whole ad offering and reported on today of how they go out to advertisers basically saying, "Look, if you want to start a viral challenge or meme, this is how we can do it and these are the influencers that are on our platform that we can work with you to promote it." It's getting more orchestrated. In that sense, I don't blame people for thinking that a lot of the Bird Box stuff was orchestrated, because so often it is just not in the way that you think.
Adam: Well, I got embroiled in a Twitter argument around the Netflix Bird Box thing where...
Taylor: We got into a million arguments, me too. What were you saying?
Adam: Well, isn't it frustrating you just make one stupid comment or you like something and all of a sudden you're pulled into it? You're reporting on it.
Taylor: Story of my life, yes. [chuckles]
Adam: Sometimes I'm like, "Just stop typing, you idiot. You're going to get pulled into this dumb waste of time." The conversation was people were saying, "Okay, Netflix is committing fraud by making these memes or getting these memes shared on accounts that are not transparently Netflix," but to my mind, Netflix is distributing fiction as their business model, right? They do have some documentaries, some movies but entertainment. Is it even wrong for Netflix to create more fiction around-- When it's Bandersnatch we're all like, "It's choose your own adventure. It's clever," but technically isn't engaging in the meme part of a choose your own adventure that just happens off the main platform?
Taylor: Yes, kind of. The thing is Netflix didn't make those memes.
Adam: Well, that's a secondary-- Never mind that.
Taylor: Yes, no, totally. Participating in public discourse and stuff is like-- Wait, what is your argument? I'm sorry. I'm so sorry, my brain is fried, I'm so sorry.
Adam: No, that's how confusing it is because it's like inception. Would it be wrong for them to create it and put it out there on with some other fake accounts? Like who gives a shit?
Taylor: Well, first of all, they didn't do that, they couldn't do that.
Adam: I know.
Taylor: You're right. No, it probably wouldn't be wrong but it would be lame I guess if they do it. If they created the accounts it would be pointless too because if you create accounts they're not going to-- If you just create a bunch of accounts that post random memes they're not going to actually drive any conversation so it would be pointless, it would be lame, it would be a huge waste of time.
What you want is to work with these influencers or big meme accounts to actually seed these memes to their audience. That's more valuable. Also, that way, they'll create it in a way that resonates with their audience because if Netflix just makes a bunch of memes, what audiences are they making the memes for? That's really important. If they don't have an audience they’re just creating accounts it would just be so pointless. Yes, you got to have to work with somebody that has an audience and whose audience expects memes.
Adam: Yes. The world of influencer participation in co-creation is a challenging place for brands.
Taylor: Murky, I know.
Adam: Because especially the other side of the Netflix argument is why on earth would they stoop to do that when they control so much of the cultural conversation?
Taylor: They don't have to that's the thing, they don't have to. I think that they've probably proven this time and time again. When they released some big thing, the marketing push around it is so strong. They don't have to get into these weird nitty-gritty things trying to-- Basically they didn't even post memes on their main Instagram account, they created an Instagram account specifically for Bird Box and never posted a single meme on that Instagram account.
Taylor: They don't need to do that because they have this huge, powerful machine and they have distribution. Netflix's distribution is through their app and so they don't need to do a lot of this other stuff. They know that it will be part of the cultural conversation and that's what memers do, they want to talk about the big movie release or whatever.
Adam: Look at the Ted Bundy Tapes. I think that is what it's called.
Taylor: Yes also, they love it. Don't get me wrong, they love it. There are tweets like, "Hey guys, there's a lot of other people other than Ted Bundy who are hot." That's ripping on the fact that the joke has been that everyone thinks Ted Bundy is really hot I guess.
Adam: That's so gross.
Taylor: I know, it's so weird. I haven't even seen the show yet. They acknowledge that and they're trying to distance themselves for it but by promoting it to their audience. They're still promoting it. It's like when they were like, "Nobody do the Bird Box challenge meme, everyone be careful." It's like, "Yes, you just brought this meme's attention to a wider audience."
Adam: Exactly. The truth is, they could do very little and still get a lot of the attention just because the platform is so huge.
Adam: They don't need this shit.
Taylor: Yes, totally.
Adam: They don't need to be messing around here. That's what's interesting, but they're unique. Then you have brands like McDonald's that are so thirsty for the love of the masses. Every time McDonald's does anything on social everybody just spams it and destroys it within 10 minutes.
Taylor: Yes, it's like all of them, Wendy's, Denny's. I think their strategy is a little bit tired.
Adam: Let's discuss. Now, you've-
Taylor: Well, no shade. First of all, I used to do social media for brands so I know how it is. I think they're just not really experimental and the whole conversational Twitter presence is lame in a late capitalism type world that we're living in now. I think people just think it's lame. Their strategy which is basically like snarky replies on Twitter, that era of snarky replies on Twitter, I think peaked in 2015 and-
Adam: Right, we're past it.
Taylor: - declined. I think that they need to look at what the next iteration of that will be.
Adam: Well, you got into another argument that I ended up with on Twitter.
Taylor: I'm good at getting into arguments, what did I say?
Adam: No, I think you and I are probably in the same argument on this one because I said it's past, it's lame. However, Wendy's in particular just in the last six months changed their television strategy, they have that same snarky attitude. For a long time they were totally separate brands, their Twitter persona versus their mass media persona but now their TV ads are essentially no voiceover, text on the screen that are making fun of their competitors and has the same tone. Even though I think it's passé, I wonder if it's driving sales or having some effect? At least it's different than what the other brands are doing.
Taylor: I think it's less and less different. I also think it's a very weird strategy to have in 2019 when snark and divisiveness are everywhere. It's like, do you really need a brand also starting fights online? There's 10,000 Nazis that will do that for you. I don't know.
The integration of a TV campaign with a social presence I think is a strong thing. I think one thing that brands have failed to recognize is that-- They've recognized it more now but I think they used to have these two separate things and they treated their social presences as a sort of throw away. I think now people are realizing it is the main way that consumers engage with a brand. It's great to see those strategies aligned but I think they're going to need a new take at least by 2020.
Adam: Yes, I have a feeling there. I hope they're already realizing that but who the hell knows?
Taylor: Who knows. I don't know what's going on over at Wendy's HQ.
Adam: No, I'm going to text them. I'll text them right after this. Given that the speed of things is changing online and it's never going to slow down, I don't see a way that it would, this show is all for people who work inside brands and agencies, how can we adjust? How can we adapt to the speeds and you're looking forward then you're going to know this strategy is not working but I will land on the next strategy, it also won't work?
Taylor: I hope that no one listening works for Wendy's if you do, no shade again.
Well, when I worked in a strategy role-- I used to do social media strategy and worked for a bunch of agencies on a bunch of brands. The hard thing at least for people that work in agencies, I think, is selling stuff into a client and working on an accelerated timeline. I think it's important to work with clients who give you liberty to be experimental and try things.
If you're in-house at a brand, I think it's the same thing. It's getting buy-in and I think is the problem but that's what can take time and you all-- It's like you see these brands on Twitter that are just so late, it's four days later and then they've finally have come out with their Instagram egg commentary and it's, "Dude, that was three days ago."
I think being reactive but also not just seeming-- Being smart about it and recognizing that you don't have to actually rush to have a take on every single viral phenomenon. Just wait, establish yourself, be yourself online, and come in if it feels right but don't just hop on everything either.
Adam: It's like if you can't act quickly just don't act.
Taylor: Just don’t. If you can't act quickly and it isn't a natural thing-- If your persona wouldn't naturally engage, there's no reason. Just because something is blowing up doesn't mean that you have to get involved in it.
Adam: Yes. That's very, very good advice and I hope people will take that. Two more questions. We're rounding third here because I know you have to get off for another call. You wrote an article today about the egg. The cursed egg. I read somewhere and I can't remember if it is your quote or somewhere else, somewhere media, they said the egg could be worth $10 million.
Adam: You know Kyle Bunch.
Taylor: He was great. He gave the best quote that got cut out. I just want to give his quote which was like- He was basically saying the same thing sort of that it's worth it to engage in this if it makes sense for your brand but you had to have down a lot of leg work already. You can't just come in in the last moment and then try to pop out and make something good. He compared it to the ending of Lost where he was like, this is something that has built up for so long everyone is excited about and then if you come and try to write the ending, you're going to let people down unless it's really good.
Kyle was like- I wish more of his quotes got another article because he gave a lot of really smart perspective on it.
Adam: I'm trying to get him on the show so we'll compare notes after this.
Adam: There's the quote right there, 10 million. Do you think that it's going to build that kind of big take or what? That sounds crazy.
Taylor: Campaigner media said that. To be fair, other people said it was also in the millions and the number that was floated around for the Need to Impeach campaign was in the millions. Although, they never got the point of negotiating price. Do I think it's worth that? I don't know. Potentially not. I think it completely depends on the activation and the- Who knows. I think, actually, the idea which Jerry Media came up with, which was to partner with this non-profit called Need to Impeach and they wanted the Instagram egg to crack. Have the words, "Impeach Trump," pop out and then Donald Trump doing the chicken dance.
That is insane and it is so crazy that it would have gotten a lot of press, and actually probably been good. If it cracks and there's M&M's inside, that's going to be lame, but if it's something that's just so out of left field and actually takes a strong maybe cause-oriented type of thing or a political stance, that's pretty interesting.
Adam: If it's any logo of a global-
Taylor: If it's some lame logo I'm going to hate it.
Adam: Yes. Everybody is going to crap on it if it's Ronald McDonald pops out or something, it's just going to be a disaster.
Taylor: Yes, but the fact that we're talking about it, the fact that everyone is waiting to see I think speaks to the fact that it probably is worth a lot. If it is just which another thing Kyle said that got cut. If it's just an attention play, just having those eyeballs on something is valuable in itself. Somebody could squander that just the way that people squander Super Bowl ads all the time too, but TBD.
Adam: I know. I guess the most amazing part of the entire story is that we've been focused on it for a week and a half and still everybody can remember what it is. It's not like, "Wait, what egg? What are you talking about?" We're all kind of waiting.
Taylor: Right, but in a month from now, it's going to be too long. It's close. It's very close.
Adam: The Super Bowl is coming so I have a feeling it's going to coincide pretty neatly with that.
Taylor: We'll see.
Adam: It's going to be like Bud Light pop out and be like, "Watch your head on the Super Bowl."
Taylor: I used to do the Bud Light Facebook page and-
Adam: I'm sorry.
Taylor: It was actually great. It was a long time ago. Yes, yes, that was at when I used to work at an ad agency and it was our client. It was back in the days when you could just post one thing on Facebook. You'd be like, "It's Bud Light O'clock." You would get like 15,000 shares. It was 2012. I don't' know.
Adam: You were still allowed to ask people to share things.
Taylor: Yes. It was just a totally different world.
Adam: It was. All right, last question and I will let you get to your other thing. What is your platform of choice?
Adam: Instagram all day. That's it?
Taylor: That's my life. If I was to choose a platform that I couldn't live without, it's Instagram. That's where I go to meet people. It's where I go to find cool stuff, it's where I find most of my story ideas. I don't think I could live without it. Media and journalism is very on Twitter but my personal life is still on Instagram. My story ideas are on Instagram so yes, that's my one. It's problematic and Facebook is problematic but-
Adam: Everything has a problem to it. Do you find is it more plugged in to culture?
Taylor: I think Instagram defines culture now and it's so tied up in everything. It's so tied up in influencer culture but it's also just so tied up in how especially young people socialize and communicate that it's-- I think it's the most relevant social platform.
Adam: Awesome. Well, I want to beat the clock here so thank you so much for making time.
Taylor: Yes, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Adam: This is awesome and thanks again for making time. I'll be following your stories and seeing what happens with this damn egg.
Taylor: Thanks. Yes. All right.
Adam: All right. Thanks.